Today we are chatting about something that is usually not too fun to think about.  In today’s interview I am chatting with Amber Dugger all about money— STOP! don’t run for the hills yet!   


Yes, we will be talking about money, but we are also going to be talking about creating a life you love and who doesn’t want that?! 


Amber Dugger is the founder of Profit For Keeps, a system developed for online entrepreneurs to end the stress and anxiety around numbers.  It is a holistic system combining personal finance and business cash flow strategies using Profit First and YNAB (You Need a Budget). She has helped hundreds of coaches implement this system and has helped thousands more calculate revenue goals that actually make sense!  She is a certified health coach from IIN and worked in corporate finance for 15 years before venturing out on her own in 2015 and thrives on being location independent. She loves traveling, wine, bicycles, knitting and a good cup of tea (if in England) and coffee (if in Italy).   


I know you guys are going to find this episode immensely valuable in setting your business up for success so make sure to tune in! 

Value Bombs:

  • How to simplify and organize your money so you can see everything in one place 
  • Reverse engineering your expenses to get to your revenue goal 
  • Creating a holistic system to see both personal and business income and expenses
  • Why you should be open to possibility and think about what it is you truly desire
  • How to create “step” goals so you can gradually create goals that you feel comfortable with 
  • Creating a vision and breaking down money goals to see it comes to life
  • How to evaluate your expenses and whether they are right for your business 
  • Understanding where your money is going from the very beginning can be very peaceful 
  • The difference between a bookkeeper and a tax accountant 
  • Poor cash flow management is one of the key reasons that businesses go out of business 
  • The importance of using a bookkeeping software


Manging money feels awkward and uncomfortable for many, but Amber encourages you to give yourself grace.  The more and more you learn about managing your money, the more it will feel like a flow and you will learn to love having control over your finances. 


I feel like this episode was the most “non-money” money talk ever.  I loved having Amber on the show because she really empowered us to take control of not only our finances but also our joy and happiness.   I know I have said it before, but when we track our happiness level, everything grows. 


I encourage each of you to join Amber’s community on Facebook and really start to embrace your finances to create a life that you love. 


Hope you enjoy! 




Resources Mentioned


Episode 2:  4 Things Service Providers Should Track 

Episode 3: 4 Tools You Should Be Using to Scale Your Service-Based Business

Psycho-Cybernetics Book

Profit First Book 

You Need a Budget Software (YNAB) 


Where You Can Connect With Amber: 


Send Amber an email at 

Amber’s Website

Amber’s Facebook Page

Amber’s Facebook Community 

Follow Amber on Instagram 

Amber’s Revenue Calculator 


Additional Resources:

Don’t forget to sign up for my free training >> How to Scale to Consistent 10K Months Without Hiring a Team 

Subscribe to the Podcast

Follow Brandi on Instagram 

Follow Brandi on Facebook

Read Full Transcript

Today we are chatting about the most sexiest unsexiest conversation with Amber dugger and that is the topic all around money and creating the life that you love. And money is such a big part of that. And amber is the founder of profit for keeps a system developed for online entrepreneurs to end the stress and anxiety around numbers. It's a holistic system combining personal finances and business cash flow strategies using profit first, and you need a budget. She's helped hundreds of coaches implement the system and has helped thousands more calculate revenue goals that actually makes sense. I loved my conversation with Amber and she dropped so many bombs on us and I feel like this was just a conversation not so much about money, but just how we should live our life run our business. Some of the major value bombs he dropped his How to create a life that is profitable and joyful, how to pay yourself and what to pay yourself, reverse engineering our expenses. And also the big thing is looking at a cash flow system using digital envelopes and all these things are so important so not talked about and we are taking the taboo topic of money and really breaking it down for you. So let's jump on in and meet Amber.

Welcome to the serve scale soar podcast, the podcast dedicated to helping service based entrepreneurs scale their online business to five figure months so they can soar into six figure years your host brandi is a wife mom, and in less than one year created a six figure business and now she is spilling all her secrets so you can do

Hello serve scale soar family. Oh my goodness, I am so excited this week, I have amber on the show. And amber is going to be talking all about that fun, sexy topic of money that none of us want to talk about. But she is going to bring it to us in a way that makes it so manageable and so doable and doesn't stress us out but actually empowers us. So welcome to the podcast, Amber and just tell my audience who you are, who you serve, and especially who you are as a person.

Well, thank you so much for having me, Brandi. I'm so happy to be here. I love having the opportunity to just talk about something that's been taboo for so long. Money is something that I think brings a lot of emotion and brings sometimes feelings that are negative. And so I'm here to help break that barrier. I am from New Mexico. Originally, I'm from northern New Mexico, and I absolutely love Love, love to ski do exhilaration type activities, like riding a scooter. Let's see and I do currently live outside of Washington DC, I specifically love to help people guide their way through the very complicated and unnecessarily complicated journey around money and simplify it in a way that actually makes sense without needing an accounting degree or a bookkeeping background. I love to empower clients that are really impact driven and are looking to really make a difference in this world and also live in a high vibration of joy. Because we're here truly to experience joy. And the people that I work with that are just in a place where they have said, You know what, I'm not going to live the conventional I want to seek out freedom and enjoy my life. And I'm here to help them make sure that financially it's also a really enjoyable experience.

I love so many things you decided especially about like we are here to experience joy and I 100% agree with that. And I know that we always say like people are so scared of money and I always tell people, but money only brings us more options to bring more freedom, which brings more joy. And so money is not a bad thing. And that is why I wanted to have you on here because it is so taboo. And I think the more that we talk about money, the less taboo it becomes, and the more wealth and freedom, flexibility and joy we can bring. And so tell my listeners just a little bit about your take on like how we manage our money as service providers.

Well, I really like to look at this from a perspective of why we would even want to do this. I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't really like just sitting around talking about money without any sort of purpose. So the reason any of us are here talking about this and for your listeners, I just want to first say congratulations for giving yourself this beautiful gift of financial self care by listening to this episode. And really just breathe into this information and Know that you are so courageous and amazing for listening to this right now, I think a lot of people, it's a scary subject to start looking at. And so the approach that I love to take is first, just ask yourself, close your eyes for a moment and see what is it that you truly desire for your life? And if there's something about your life that may not be in alignment with your desires, what does it need to look like? What do you want to have in your everyday life? And this is what I call profit for joy. So instead of us approaching this as how much revenue Do we need to pay our next bill, I want to take a client all the way to let's see, if you already have money for the next two to six months of your bills already sitting in your bank account. And you are now able to look more strategically and see okay, what is it that I want to accomplish this year? Where is it that I want to travel this year? What is it that I don't want to be doing in my life that brings me these desires Build a revenue goal based on that. And so instead of looking at bookkeeping and looking at accounting and financial statements, we're looking at this as an organizational tool. So, you know, just like we organize our to do list with things like Asana or Trello, and we organize a lot of different things. Money tends to be the thing that we don't feel like we really know how to organize it because it may be in several different bank accounts that might be on several different cards and it feels messy. So we like to look at it as just simplifying everything and seeing everything in one place. And we do this via various you know, various different things including first just looking at what is it that you want to be paying yourself each and every month, and that includes things that aren't necessarily your just your monthly bills, but also variable things such as you know, holiday gifts, instead of having to try to find an extra several hundred dollars in December, being able to put it aside each and every month leading up to December. So it's just like any other month when it gets to They're looking at annual premiums like Amazon Prime, or if you pay for some, you know, like if you have kajabi or something like that, and you're paying the annual fee to make it less per month, you can still create a monthly bill for yourself. And so we just look at all those things and then reverse engineer it to get a revenue goal that makes sense for your specific situation. And then we implement an envelope software system for both personal and business. And that way everything is a holistic system and you can truly see exactly what money you're making, where it's going, how to organize it when it comes in, and also be able to consistently pay yourself.

Oh, I love this and you said so many things that I want to just unpacked. First off profit for joy is like the best phrase that I've heard. So I love that. And then when we're talking about paying herself so I work with a bookkeeper. But before I worked with a bookkeeper, I got to six figures before that, and we talked about That is one of the four tools that I use to scale my business. And we will link that up in the show notes. But I think it was so important for me to know like what my family needed. And like you said, reverse engineer it. Because so many times we're just working and when our expenses, and then there's nothing left, and why are you doing this? Most of my listeners have kids and everything. And you just don't want to work to work and not have any more money, like to do the fun things. So when people are coming up with that, you know, the money that they need to make each month so they can take what they want when they're just starting out. What do you recommend? How do they come up with that? to come up with have a number of them? Yeah,

yeah. So it's a great question. I always encourage one to be really open to possibility and the first take so just really being expansive and thinking what is it that I truly desire? I believe very strongly in the concepts in the books Psycho Cybernetics, which explains Have you heard? Have you heard of this book?

I've heard of it. I haven't read it though. It's so good. I'm gonna read it. And we will link it up in the show notes.

Okay, amazing. So this concept is really breaking down all of the pieces of visualization and how it truly does define how our thoughts create our reality. And so it talks about how our brain does this. And so I believe that by getting that visualization and that feeling that you desire in place and understanding that first is key, because then you can start thinking about if I were when I'm at that place, what is it that I'm going to want to be able to pay for, for example, I knew when I first started, it would just be amazing to have a weekly massage, like even a monthly massage was not something I was doing at the time. And so that was something that I wrote down. Okay, I'm going to budget enough money for a weekly massage and just start listing things down. You can start with just your monthly expenses, and then start thinking of things that you know pop up that you didn't necessarily plan for, and write those out and then decide how much you think they are per year and divided by 12 and make that another monthly expense. And then you can just take the list and you can look at it and that can be your expansive list. And then you can say, Okay, what are the things that I know for sure, I will feel secure and safe by paying for so then you can circle the things that you know for sure you want and that could be a step goal for yourself. And the revenue calculator that I have helps you with that. So you can put in how much you want to be paying yourself, how much your business investments are, how much you want to be putting aside for taxes and have enough money for profit. And when you put that in, it gives you a revenue goal and also gives you specific profit first percentages for your business. So that way, you can create step goals for yourself so you can see what the expansive goal is by paying yourself. That number that's increasing. reading everything that you've listed. And then you can say, Okay, I'm planting that in my subconscious mind as the goal that I truly want to be obtaining. And then depending on your capacity to receive and what you feel comfortable with it, if it feels just completely out of range, then your thoughts will definitely prevent you from hitting that right away. So it can be great to then give yourself a step goal that you can feel uncomfortable, but still, like I think I could do that. And then that's how you can gradually increase your capacity but also with numbers that actually makes sense for your situation.

I love that and I actually use your calculator when I first started my business I like I don't even know how I found it, but I found it. And I use that same thing. And then we use this with my bookkeeper when we just purchased our car and we paid him full and it was through this process of like, Okay, how much does that look like setting back each month? And then I love what you said about the visualization. And so one of the Things that I came into my business to do was really, I mean, at the beginning, it was to pave help pay for food and like just family expenses. But a big part of my story is I wanted to be able to travel with my daughter and husband and not have that guilt about like, Okay, if we purchase this, it's like a stress thing. And now for all my listeners, they know we're at Disney like three times a month. And we are totally guilty of spoiling our child with all the Disney merchandise, but it's not heavy, but it was all because that is what was part of my vision is being able to travel and now it's coming true and I love that you brought that up and the power of money. It doesn't have to be like this heavy thing. It can be something that just like I said in the beginning gives us options and I love how you just broke that down. Now I did bring up the calculator and I'm assuming that we'll be able to link that up in the show notes right. Okay, so yeah, sure. Okay, cuz I know the listeners are like, wait, what calculator I gotta go find this calculator. So willing That up, and then you did bring up profit first. And this is a book that a lot of people in the online space are reading. I've read it. But what you do and profit first are similar but a little bit different. So can you explain if someone's like, Oh, I'm just going to go read the book, how that would vary from how you teach this. Sure. So

the book is amazing. And I'm so grateful to Mike mccalla Wits for writing the book. It has some game changing concepts in there. And it was also written originally for more of a traditional type business, not necessarily brick and mortar, but it was written to that audience. And so it talks a lot about gathering financial statements in order to do the next step. And that's when I got to that part of the book and I said, I'm not going to do that. I know how I want to apply this. I want to apply this in a way that for me since I was looking to be location independent and I wanted to have certain freedoms and I didn't necessarily have 50% of my business expenses as expenses from my based on my revenue. And he talks about this a lot in the book. As virtual businesses, we have the beautiful option to really start from not having a lot of expenses, right? We don't necessarily have to go get an office space, and we don't have to get staff and all of those things. So the way that we apply it is very similar to what I just mentioned before, and that we reverse engineering. So for those of you who haven't heard of profit, first, the concept is changing the way that we view how profit is defined. And this is going to be just the only part of accounting jargon will use in this entire conversation. But they're pretty simple terms. So basically, profit is traditionally defined as the amount of money that comes into your business or revenue, minus your expenses, according to the business. And then what's left over is profit. And just like with personal savings, you have heard that concept, pay yourself first or Put the savings aside first. This is the same concept for business. So generally, we will find purpose and ways to spend our money with whatever amount we actually have. So this concept is saying, you know what, let's take the profit out first. So how about we say sales or revenue minus profit equals expenses. And so whatever's left over, we can then use for expenses instead. And so that's the general concept. And then he takes it a step further and says, you know, based on your type of business model of business revenue, you want to be aiming to be able to have allocations of your revenue broken up into percentages. And so he gives a chart based on your revenue and the first two revenue is zero to 250,000. And as we all know, an online business that varies significantly, like $60,000 business versus a from a $230,000 business, they look different, right. So our percentage aren't going to look the same. And on top of that someone living in Manhattan's expenses are going to be very different from someone living in northern New Mexico. So, I like to look at this more as, okay, how much do you want to pay yourself? What are your business expenses, instead of having target allocation percentages, let's just calculate what we personally need based on a certain amount of revenue. And so by having this reverse engineered, we're now looking at Okay, I for my business, I want to be hitting X amount per month. And this is how I'm going to organize it when it comes in. And so that's the main difference.

Okay. And I love this because it also keeps us running kind of a lean business. I always encourage as a service provider, we're so freakin lucky that we don't have all expenses and when I look at my books from the service based business that I have and the membership in the mastermind, the profit margins are way too front with both of them. And we are so lucky that we can run such a lean business. And so I know shiny object is real with my listeners, there's like a lot of software, a lot of courses. So when we're looking at this profit first that's really going to cut down on maybe the courses and all this. So when we're looking at our expenses, you know, what do you recommend if the expenses are taking more of our profit? And from our goals? I love that. I love that question. Because

the thing is, I love to call them investments because any investment regardless of whether or not it's hosting for your website, and that's not as shiny as like a course that really is promising the thing that you're really looking to do. They're all meant to be something that will eventually give you a return or is continually giving you a return or is necessary for you to be able to function as a business. So I like to look at my expense finances or investments on a regular basis and ask myself, am I giving this priority? Am I giving this the intention and priority that it deserves? And if I'm not, then I need to question whether or not it's something I want to continue to pay for. And even if that means I was grandfathered in at a really low rate, and I'm paying it just because I don't want to lose that rate, I still will let it go. Because as someone who is being intentional and purposeful with money, there is no overspending. Now, overspending does not defined by how much money you're spending on something. I always like to use this example like I love my fountain pens, this is a $300 fountain pen. Some people would say oh my gosh, why did you spend $300 on a pen, but it brings me so much joy writing with it the experience that I get when I see the beautiful ink on the paper, but if I purchased you know something else like a pair of of really uncomfortable but gorgeous shoes, I probably wouldn't Wear them. Therefore that was an overspend for me. So it's really looking at the business investments and asking yourself, Am I using these? Do I find that I'm prioritizing the things that I am spending the money on? And will this give me a return in an amount of time that I feel comfortable with making the investment now, because there are times that you may make an investment that feels really uncomfortable and financially, not the best move. But if you know that you're going to apply yourself you're going to do all the work, then it can reap great benefits afterwards. So you really just want to be honest with yourself on whether or not you're going to make it a priority.

I love that because one of the things we do with my bookkeeper is we look and my biggest expense this year was education. So my coaches my just courses and when she told me how much we've spent, and I'll be honest with y'all, because I share numbers all the time it was $30,000. That's a college tuition. For some people for four years, and now we're at a multiple six figure revenue, so like, Don't listen to 30,000 and then be like, Oh, I can spend that much. But I was like, oh, man, should we get that down next year? And one of the things she said is, are you going through them? are they bringing in like you joy? Are you seeing the return? And I was like, Yes, these courses, my coaches, I prioritize that that is a part that brings me joy. It lights me up. And I can see that direct income that comes from those and she was like them, why do we need to get that number down? And I'm like, you're right. We don't. And so I think just having a pulse on that, like you said, is so important. But also one of the things that we've talked about a lot is not purchasing, because you feel like you're in need, like, are you buying these things because you're going to go through them and really see a return in the long run, or are you just buying them to fill these holes that you feel like you have and then you're not completing them. You're not going to them. So I think that there's a big distinction between what we're saying is, are you buying them for the right reasons? Are you really taking time to evaluate? And that time doesn't have to be long? But like, actually don't just go in and press pay now, but like take the time, like, is this going to benefit me in some way?

Yes, completely agree on that. And something just that was popping up, as you're talking about that, for me, is there's this concept that I now have implemented in my business, I do not purchase a new app or tool that has been brought to me as Oh, look at this cool new app or tool. The only time I'll ever purchase an app or tool is when I have a specific problem that needs to be addressed that I don't have the current solution with my suite of tools already. I then look for a solution that meets that need, not necessarily the software because, you know, I was guilty of looking at app Sumo all the time because they had all these great deals and I was like, Oh, I should get that. Well. probably need that at some point. And you know, there's been one that of all that I purchased that I am so happy I have, but in general, there were all these other ones that either went defunct, or I'm not using it at all. So just asking yourself, you know, what is it that you actually need out of the software and then trying to find a software that means that?

Yeah, I think that's such a great point. And then one of the things I mean, recently, there's an email software that's been going out and I was looking at it like, oh, man, look at those pretty emails, but I love Convert Kit and it does everything I need. And it's like, Okay, at this point, does it make sense to switch? And then when I look at it, and I'm like, No, the time that it would take to switch over their time is money. And so I was like, you know, convert kids filling my needs, I don't need to switch and I think just taking the time to really evaluate our purchases is so important to our business. And with that, I want to switch kind of gears and talk about About just having a pulse on our finances, because I have talked about this in one of the first episodes will link up to it. But the reason I was able to scale is because I really had a pulse on cash flow and what my business expenses were, and it wasn't scared to look at the numbers. So can you really talk about the importance of cash flow and how that's different than everything else?

Sure. Yeah. I mean, cash flow is such an important thing to be looking at from as soon as you start a business and I agree that it's scary. And so there are a lot of people who don't they think, okay, and this is normal. So if you feel this way, don't think that you're, you know, out of the ordinary, but a lot of people will start a business thinking, Well, I'm going to just spend this stuff and then I'll make money and it'll be fine in the long run. But having a real good understanding of where your money is going from the very beginning can be so peaceful, and it can just really reduce anxiety because Not knowing where things go does create a lot of anxiety. And a lot of times I hear people come to me and they say, well, I've hired a bookkeeper, but I still feel a lot of stress about money. And so something that I think even the financial industry is confused about is there are not just two components of financial management. It's not just bookkeeping and taxes, it's bookkeeping, taxes and cash flow management, and cash flow management. being done by a bookkeeping software is like having two separate puzzles and trying to fit them together. They are just not meant for the same thing. So a bookkeepers role is 100% to help you track and organize what's already happened. And so it may be two or three weeks behind in terms of the data and they're looking at Okay, this is how much has come in and they're tracking your revenue and they're tracking your expenses. This is all done specifically in a way with a bookkeeping software that will easily translate to An accountant to help you figure out exactly how much you own taxes. And that is the sole number one reason that a bookkeeper is available to do that, the tax accountant will help you with tax strategy. And they'll look at all of your expenses and your revenue and your situation, and be able to recommend things to help you not pay a penny more than you own taxes. But as a business owner, looking at cash flow management is not something that you need to do with a bookkeeping software. Instead, it's actually much easier to do it with something like an envelope software. I personally love you need a It's an envelope software. And what it does is it looks at exactly how much money is in your bank account right now. doesn't care what happened before just looks at what's in the bank account right now. And then it asks you, what do you plan to do with this money? What do you what purpose and intention or job are you going to give the money that's in your bank account. And so then you can see Because we do this in our head like in our personal accounts, we may say, Okay, I know rent or mortgage is due on the first. So I need to make sure to keep money in for that. And we do a lot of this like kind of ad hoc calculating to ensure money is there. And so an envelope system helps you to be so much more thorough and organized with that. So you can see exactly where your money is lasting like to what expense and then also when money comes in, you can easily categorize it in a way that Okay, so I just made $1,000 in my business, and based on the calculator, I know that I want to put a certain percentage to profit owners pay taxes, and then the business expenses instead of just having the rest of it sitting there for business expenses. You can assign the business expense money based on what you have available. So you'll be able to see your progress as you start saving more money how far as lasting you and that is all forward looking is looking at Okay, what is Going to bring me joy, what is going to bring me the ability to make more money? What investments Do I need to make? So then you're not dependent on a bookkeeper or someone to tell you whether or not you can afford to pay for something or how much money you need to be making, because you've empowered yourself to understand this information. And even when I was working for the third largest nonprofit in the country, I was a controller when I was still in corporate, we still did a cash flow management report every single morning. And that was done completely outside of the bookkeeping system. And that allowed them to make decisions on spending based on that report. And so it's something that certain corporations are savvy to do, but it's not the norm. And I think that's one of the key reasons why cash flow manager or cash flow is one of the number one reasons why businesses go out of business. And what's crazy is that we don't have a cash flow management officer is like a C suite option. So it's just it's amazing to me

Ya know, and I think one of the things that you said is like these different roles, and the online space is so amazing. So my bookkeeper we actually use you need a budget, and she's also a certified life coach. So I'm bringing all the woo and into my business. And I love that because we do we plan like a head. So right now we plan two months ahead and budget everything out. And what's so empowering is that then we have like the profit where I take my owner draw, but then we also have where there's money going for taxes, but then there's also the profit that's what she labels it but it's kind of from the profit first, where we take a percentage that we agreed on each month and put it back in each quarter I get a bonus and that bonus is like so nice because it's not for businesses. It's like for my own family and we love to get that bonus each quarter because Then we can travel or do whatever we want with it. But also, I think the biggest thing for me is when we started when I hired her and really saw, like, you know, this is what the business looks like, and two months, it took so much pressure off me because I was like, Oh, the business is so healthy. And then we're keeping a pulse on expenses. We're keeping a pulse on how much my family takes out. But that's always the first question she asked is, how much money do you want to take out this month? And I think that's really empowered me because I know that the work I'm putting in, I'm going to see the money from it like that is the first priority. And so I love this, but you keep on talking about I know one of the things that pops into my mind is probably gonna pop into my listeners mind is we're talking about this virtual envelope system. And so is this similar to Dave Ramsey's? Like, envelope system?

Hmm, great question. So one every dollar i think is what his envelope system is called, is an envelope system. YNAB is also an envelope system. So in that respect, they're very similar. I don't know the ins and outs of Dave Ramsey's system, but I do believe everything is mostly cash. So everything is done in cash. And Dave Ramsey system works really, really well for a certain type of person to someone who really needs extremes and someone who needs kind of like a boot camp mentality, just to kind of shock the system. It can be a really great thing. Most people that I speak to, especially the entrepreneur, that is not a great method for them, because it kind of creates a scarcity mindset. And also this is not very expansive and thinking. Now Dave Ramsey definitely says, you know, your income is going to be your biggest thing in terms of being able to move out of your situation. I totally agree with that. And as entrepreneurs we have the ability of unlimited income potential. And so we don't have a set amount of money that were given in a job. We have The ability to make as much as we want and price accordingly. So, by looking at from that perspective, it's funny a lot of clients will say to me, I'm surprised you're not telling me to like cut back on a whole bunch of stuff. And if that's what brings you joy, please do cut back on it, you know, but it's really more about what is it that you require in terms of resources to be able to be in alignment for what brings you joy. So if that means travel on a regular basis, then let's plan for that. If it means putting your children in this specific summer camp, and let's make sure that that happens. It's not about eating rice and beans and feeling like, Okay, I'm gonna get all this done in the next six months. But again, power to you if that works for you. So it's not that I'm saying that that's not a good system. It's just not the system that we use.

Perfect. And I love your honesty, and it's just one of those things that we have to find what works for us, and I love this system that you're talking about. It's worked really well for me Okay, so let's back up because everyone's going to ask software questions. So you need a budget is the software, I use it, I did not set it up. And I feel like I'm pretty tech savvy. But when I look at this because I want to move it over into my personal finances as well. But I'm like, holy cow. This is like, if I had to do it, it probably wouldn't get done. So is this something where you help your clients? Do you have resources? Do you think it's pretty intuitive? What are your thoughts?

So why now is one of those things it's like riding a bicycle, the first three weeks, it's like, oh my gosh, like what the heck, this is not making sense to me. And there's a learning curve to it. But once you understand it, it is like riding a bike. You use it forever. I haven't had a single person that has gone through this program, not actually use it on an ongoing regular basis on a daily basis. So I do have a program that takes you through the entire process to teaching you how to use my How to apply it to both business and personal. And we start with coming up with your revenue goal with your profit first percentages. And then we go into the intricacies of YNAB and how to set it up to make it work for you as a business owner, and then setting up a final step, which is creating a separate budget for your business. So at the end of it, you have YNAB for personal you have wine app for business, and you fully understand how it all plays together. And also how to rerun revenue goals based on changing revenue needs, because as your business grows, you're going to be adding in new components and complexities to your business and so it just goes with you.

I love that. Okay, so we have talked a lot about doing this on your own cash flow. And now like when do you think is the right time for service providers to hire Do you think they should hire like soon as they start their business someone to manage this forum? Do you think they need to get a grasp on it first, when is the right time to have Someone to take over this for them.

So I have a different perspective on it. And I love that it is working for you to have someone do it for you. I don't personally encourage that, in general, because if you don't have someone who really knows what they're doing, you can put yourself into a position of not actually knowing fully what's going on. And so I found that people that implement ynab and use it and manage it themselves, and I have even past clients like Kate Northrup, who is managing it herself. So she totally buys into this and you get this clarity that you don't get any other way. So in terms of when to have someone do it, I wouldn't have someone do it. I would learn it on your own in terms of getting a bookkeeper as soon as possible because having a bookkeeping, it sounds like your bookkeepers, awesome. I'd love to be connected with her. But most bookkeepers are doing just the quickbooks side. And so that's super important. It makes your life so much easier. Come to tax time and it allows you to prepare for taxes immediately. My wish is for this profit for keeps program that I have be a household name for anyone starting a business. Because I do believe that having it implemented before you even step foot into the business landscape, it gives you so much clarity of what you want to be doing. Because what I find is people that come to me after they've had established businesses that just hear about it. They say to me quite often, if only I had implemented this when I first started, and I hear that almost every single time, because I recognize that it was just due to lack of clarity that they didn't actually save any money here. They didn't do things in a different way. And so it's just learning it later that they realized, oh my gosh, this would have been such a game changer to do this from the beginning. However, if you have an established business and you're hearing this for the first time, it doesn't mean that you can't do it now. So it's one of those things that if you have the opportunity to know about it before you start, that's the best time but really as soon as you hear about it, and you feel called to do it that's so important, then that's when I would do it.

I love this. And yes, my bookkeeper is like, probably not like most, and I love that about her. And the fact that she was like, we're not using QuickBooks because that's what I was using. And she was like, we need to plan for future not past. And so I am very fortunate. And I think that's one of the things as well as when you go into any of this and you set it, it needs to be in alignment with, you know, your goals, your vision, and for me, I interviewed a lot of bookkeepers before hiring her and she is the one that felt just right. But it's because of this, like she got the bigger picture. She got the online space, she got the vision of the company. So I think it's super important that we all understand our own finances before just handing those out to someone. So I love that you said that.

Yeah, for sure. And For anyone listening, I would encourage you to still have a bookkeeping software. And the reason for that is as you grow, it will make accounting for it with your tax accountant so much easier. So at the end of the tax year, I give my login to my accountant and he pulls all the reports and I have a bookkeeper who is keeping and maintaining every single receipt for my expenses. So if I go through an audit, it's all there. I do believe they're so great purpose for bookkeeping software, but in terms of cash flow management, YNAB is absolutely the way to go.

I love it. Okay, and so we're almost done. I have some rapid fire but before we get to that, do you have any last words for my listeners when it comes to just managing all of this?

I just want to say thank you for you know, sticking with this conversation and for listening to this. I want to thank you for really being open to thinking differently and also to recognize that a lot of this is going to feel awkward and uncomfortable because it's New, anything new is going to feel awkward and uncomfortable. So please give yourself grace as you listen to this and think about this. And know that just this first step, you're giving yourself this amazing gift. And that as you continue to learn more about it, it's going to become a lot less awkward and uncomfortable, and it's going to feel like a flow. And so I just really encourage you to continue to seek this information out and just, I'm congratulating you for doing this because it's just amazing. You guys are amazing. Yes, I love this.

Okay, so you've been absolutely incredible, but I can't let you go without doing some rapid fires. So okay does not have to be like the first word that comes to your mind. Just the first thing that comes to your mind. So are you ready? I'm ready. Okay, what's your favorite part of your business?

Favorite part of my business? Probably traveling and meeting other people. I love meeting other people.

I love that relationships are so important. Okay, so what is the favorite software or tool you can't live without in your business? YNAB, I knew it. And no one's ever said that on the show before. So what is the best conference you've ever been to live or virtual?

Oh, I've been some really good ones. But I would say the most recent one that I really loved was kajabis conference, their first conference was out in California, and I met some incredible people there and we just had so much fun. And we went, you know, and watch the sunset and we got to meet some really incredible speakers. I loved it. I love that conference

that is on my list this year to go to is kajabi. So perfect. Okay, so tell me the best piece of business advice you've ever received.

It would probably be to recognize that success is paved by failures. And that another thing would be happiness equals reality minus expectation. So really understanding that being open to what is meant to be and when you receive disappointing news, knowing that that's actually exactly what's meant to be happening and that there's something really amazing happening because you receive this news. And just because I keep thinking, there's another thing that I wanted to mention and it's the way to completely eliminate worry is to first determine the absolute worst thing that can happen and accept it. And once you accept the absolute worst thing that can happen, there is nothing to worry about.

Oh, that is amazing. That was such a good note to end on. You have been just such an incredible guest and so much knowledge has been given. And for such an unsexy topic, you made it so good. And I feel like this was the conversation about money, but it was so much more than that. So thank you, and I just want my listeners to be able to connect with you. tell you how amazing This was in their takeaways so what are the best places for them to connect with you?

Well, thank you again so much for having me This is so much fun. I have a community on Facebook it's called sweet life purposeful money and so you can go there and connect with me also on Instagram I'm profit dot with dot Amber. You can send me a message there. And then my email say hello at amber Duggar calm,

perfect. And then we have the links for the community and everything and then amber also has her calculator that will make sure to link up as well. And just thank you so much for being on the show. It was so amazing, and I know that everyone will be reaching out with you. Well, thanks so much for having me, brandi. Oh my goodness, y'all. That was such an amazing conversation with Amber. I felt like that was the most non money money talk that I've ever had in my life. And I feel that she really empowered us to take control of our finances, but not our finances. Our joy, and our happiness level. And this is something that I've talked about so much about how when we track our happiness level, everything grows. And so I would encourage you, you probably need to go back and listen to this conversation again. Join ambers community, and really start embracing, taking profit to create a life that you love. And I'm so so passionate about that. So also make sure to reach out to amber tell her the biggest takeaway is because I truly believe this was one of the best episodes we have had. And one of the most needed episodes we have had on the podcast. And we will link up all those things in the show notes. And I just want to encourage you this week to take control of your money even it's just downloading the app or subscribing to the app and take small action because it is so important for our business. And so I want you to go out this week, serve your clients scale your business and soar into that six Your year.

Thanks again for tuning in to the serve scale soar podcast with your host brandi. If you loved our podcast, please be sure to leave a comment or review and be sure to tune in next time.

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Meet Brandi

Brandi Mowles is the host of the Serve Scale Soar podcast which is a podcast dedicated to helping service-based entrepreneurs scale their online business to five-figure months so they can soar into six-figure years. Brandi is a wife, mom and in less than one year, created a six-figure business.   Now she is spilling all her secrets so you can too.

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